Why Verse-by-Verse Preaching Matters | Reading the Bible Book by Book

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How should Christians approach the Bible? In this episode of Courier Conversations, Jeff Robinson and Travis Kerns discuss why verse-by-verse, book-by-book preaching and Bible reading is essential for pastors and laypeople alike. From handling difficult doctrines like predestination and church discipline to avoiding emotional and cultural bias in interpretation, this conversation explores how systematic reading reveals the grand story of redemption from Genesis to Revelation.

If we truly are “people of the Book,” how should we read and preach it?

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Transcript

Introduction

Jeff 0:07

Welcome to this episode of Courier Conversations. I'm Jeff Robinson, your host, and with me as always is my co-host, Travis Kearns. And Travis, we are going to talk in this episode, this edition, about our favorite topic, God's Word, the Bible. And really how we should approach the Bible. And this really comes from something that my pastor, Donald Thomas, one of our trustees here at the Baptist Courier, is the pastor at Abner Creek Baptist Church in the Three Rivers Association.

Travis 0:36

And chairman of our membership team for the Three Rivers Association.

Jeff 0:39

Okay, there you go. That's right. That's right. So Donald was uh he's preaching through 1 Corinthians, and he got to chapter 5, which deals with church discipline. And he made the statement uh that I think is important, and this is what we're going to deal with here, not Donald, but what uh uh uh based on what he said, that if it if we weren't preaching verse by verse and book by book, I would never choose this text as my sermon today. In fact, I wouldn't touch it, because in that text, a man is recommended for excommunication for sexual sin.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

Yep.

Jeff 1:07

Uh and that's a hard uh as a pastor, you've been a pastor, I've been a pastor, the most difficult thing you will do is church discipline. And we're not here to talk about church discipline, we're here to talk about how we handle the Bible. And uh say meaning this. We don't cut corners, we don't uh just pick and choose and shy away from the difficult doctrines in the Bible. And so I think what we're recommending here is a verse-by-verse, book-by-book approach, and we want to talk about that today.

Travis 1:34

Yeah, book by book, verse by verse, not only for pastors, but for uh lay people as well. So uh in uh daily Bible reading, don't just, you know, uh open the Bible and flip to something wherever your finger lands that you're reading for the day. Uh work through books systematically. Uh they're laid out the way they are for a reason. Um it's always interesting to me that uh Baptists are are usually referred to as a people of the book. Uh we fought the battle for the Bible in the 1970s and early 1980s, uh thankfully won that uh battle. Uh yet I wonder sometimes how much we actually read it, how much we actually are concerned about what it says, and not only am I concerned about how much we read it, but how we read it. Uh do we read it verse by verse, or is it just kind of a pick and choose, choose your own adventure type book to us, uh, or we just read a proverb every day or something like that, and it's kind of like a uh soothing for the soul type reading rather than than something that that's a letter to us from from the Father. Yeah. So yeah, not only for pastors, not only for churches as a whole, but for individual Christians as well.

Jeff 2:47

Well, the beauty of the Bible, and and I'm in my and I don't say this to any way make our listeners think highly of me or anything like that, but I'm in my twenty-eighth year, consecutive year, of reading through the Bible. And that's helped me more than anything else as a as a preacher and a teacher, uh, and and as a Christian, because now everything fits I mean and I'm amazed by the way at how little I know the Bible because there's so much uh in the Bible, but everything is in a context now. And it's like, you know, it it it's unlike any other book, and it's a supernatural book inspired by the Holy Spirit, and God has invested in it, His transforming power. But it's like an uh the other book in that it's a story. It's uh a theologically annotated story. And so we start in Genesis at the beginning and we come to the end, what's gonna happen in the end in Revelation, and and then and you have all the different literary genres in between, but it really communicates one story about Jesus Christ. And so that that's always our aim. And I know Donald, that that's in in Corinthians. Paul's writing there with a church that's a mess, uh, a church that I wouldn't want to pastor, frankly, if I sent them a resume and they told me, you know, we got no money, we hate each other, we're fighting, or we're trying some people are speaking in tongues, some are uh uh uh taking the Lord's Supper in vain and all this. I thought might say, well, I'll stay at the Baptist church.

Travis 4:01

Yeah, guys are uh are having intimate physical relationships with their moms. I mean, there's all kinds of stuff going on. Right.

Jeff 4:06

Yeah, I mean who would want to send the resume to that, but but uh in the in that context, we get the the glorious story of redemption, right? And so there's so much in between the two books, but it's really about Jesus Christ, and so it's important to put the book together. And I think uh I heard Danny Aiken say one time in a preaching class at Southern Seminary that we have no right to divvy up the Bible in any other way than the Holy that which the way the Holy Spirit inspired it. Right. And and that's true. And so I really appreciate what Donald said. It again just made me think of just emphasizing something that ought to be self-evident to us, but it's not always. And you gave me what percent tell me what.

Travis 4:51

Yeah, I I would say not knowing everyone specifically, but I would say out of the hundred, probably fifty, sixty, maybe seventy percent. It's a healthy number. Yeah.

The Case for Verse-by-Verse, Book-by-Book Preaching

Jeff 5:01

That is healthy. Yeah. Because I think it seems like let's just look at evangelicalism as a whole. We're Southern Baptists, but uh I doubt you're gonna have fifty or sixty percent of the churches uh and that call themselves would consider themselves evangelical. Right. Preach verse by verse book by book. In fact, I had a man, a pastor, maybe ten years ago. We were talking about uh what we're gonna what we're preaching. We're both preaching. I I was a pastor at the time, he was too, and he said, What are you preaching on Sunday? And I said, Well, I'm preaching Galatians or whatever it was. I think it was Galatians, uh Galatians three or whatever's next. And he's and I said, What are you preaching on? He said, Well, I don't know yet. And it's Friday. And I said, What do you mean you don't know yet? And he said, Well, I'll do whatever the God, what the Lord gives me. To which I thought, well, he's giving you 66 books and a lot of stuff in there. But I know what he meant by that. And so Saturday I think he came up with this sermon. And and I told him that's way too much pressure for me. I I don't know why I don't think I would ever be able to do that. I'm thankful that uh you know that we're able to uh to move on to the next paragraph. Because Donald made that point that you know that's the beauty of expository preaching, book by book, verse by verse, because you just move on to the next uh uh the next text. And to our point, you don't skip over the difficult parts.

Travis 6:14

Yeah, and and so the the opposite side of that coin is true as well. Not only do you refrain from skipping over the difficult parts, you also don't use the text and the pulpit as a bully mechanism for something that might be going on in the church that you just simply want to address. Uh I can remember um the church that I pastored in Louisville, we had a somewhat contentious business meeting one Wednesday night, and the sermon that had been planned for months, um the particular text had been planned for months for the next Sunday morning, so for four days later, dealt with the exact issue we had been uh discussing uh rather in a in a rather loud and enlightened way, I'll say on Wednesday night at that business meeting. And I had a church member come up to me after the sermon or after the service was over and say, I can't believe you used the sermon to talk directly to me about that. And I called my associate pastor over and I called our uh church secretary over and I said to the both of them, would you please tell this church member uh how long you have had the text and title for this particular sermon and a general outline? And both of them said about eight months. And that particular church member turned as white as a ghost uh and said, Wow, I think the Holy Spirit must be using the text to talk to me. And I said, I think you're probably right, uh, because that particular member had been louder and more in enlivened uh on Wednesday night's business meeting than others. So yeah, it's it's important to note not only um what's coming next, and it's important to deal with difficult topic topics, it's also important to know that God uh put the books together, not the books in order that we have them, the 66 books, but the books internally, in order in such a way that if the pastor, the the preaching pastor, the elders, whoever it might be, are praying over the next book to to preach through and how many verses to take on each Sunday, that the Lord will address things in the church as they arise, whether it be that particular Sunday when they come up or within a fairly you know short time span. It it always happens. I've never seen it not happen. It's it's just intriguing to me, fascinating to see God's providence in the way he uses his text to speak to his people.

Jeff 8:23

Yeah, my my favorite uh my favorite illustration of that uh particular reality uh is when in in 2001 uh you and I were in in Louisville together. I hadn't been there very long, you had either, in Southern at the seminary. And I was privileged to attend one of the first weekenders at Capitol Hill Baptist Church when Mark Deborah in fact I it wasn't called Nine Mark Center, it was still called the Center for Church uh uh reform at the time. And so I attended that weekender and it was right after 9-11. Uh it was uh just a few weeks after 9-11, as a matter of fact. And Mark told us, he said, I want to show y'all something, um the necessity of preaching the word ver ver book by book, verse by verse. He showed us the uh the the bulletin from the Sunday following, is it the Wednesday or Sunday? I believe it was a Sunday following 9-11. And it was Job 1.

Travis 9:16

Lord gives, the Lord takes away. That's right.

Jeff 9:18

Job one and two. And the sermon series was planned in the summer. And Mark, you know, Mark and it may have been planned in in the winter, that whole year. Mark had planned it out way ahead of time, so the Holy Spirit can guide that too. But here's this massive, massively important event, massively hurtful event and confusing event in our nation's recent history. And uh God had helped Mark m already mark out the text to to uh address it. Now, I do think there is time, there are times to stop your you know to break away for a Sunday or two from your uh from your verse by verse, book by book. Morton Martin Lloyd Jones, who did you know was probably the best uh example of uh expository preaching of this kind, he would occasionally break and address things in the nation and you know, maybe big uh uh episodes like 9-11. But in in many cases, it's true for national and international events like that, of world of global scale or an intern or national scale, that the text is already in place. God's helped helped you given you wisdom and his kind providence to plan the sermon so that it falls that way. And I said that was powerful to us. It was right after 9-11. That was still raw and fresh in our minds, and and yet this is where uh God had him go.

Reading the Bible as One Story of Redemption

Travis 10:31

Right. Yeah, it's you know, and as we mentioned earlier, uh it's important not only for pastors and for churches corporately, it's also important for Christians individually that you not just pick and choose willy-nilly uh what you're gonna read or study for a particular day, um, but to focus on reading through a book. Uh now we know, you know, from the history of the Bible itself, not the history in the Bible, but the history of the way the Bible came to us, uh the chapters and verse numbers are not uh and those the subheadings are not inspired in any way, shape, or form. The order of the books themselves, uh so Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, on and on we go are not necessarily inspired in that particular order, but the information in those books, uh so the way you you read the creation narrative from Genesis one to the end of the book, that itself is inspired, the words themselves are inspired. Um so one of the things I love to do is read through the Bible chronologically every year. I think I'm on, I don't know, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, something like that. But it really gives me a sense of how the entire thing fits together. Um because the Bible's not organized chronologically, it's organized in sections. Uh so we get law prophets and writings, or law writings, and prophets in the Old Testament, then Gospels, Acts, and Paul's letters, and then the other epistles in the New Testament. Um so yeah, just reading through chronologically, it's so helpful because you get through a little bit of Genesis, then you jump over to Job because it's happening about the same time, then back into Genesis, and as you read through 1st and 2nd Kings, you might be in Esther, you might be, or through Judges rather, you might be in Esther and then jump over to you know Nehemiah and Ezra about the same time. Um you might be reading Isaiah and jump into one of the minor prophets at the same time because they're contemporaries as they're doing their ministry work there in the ancient world. So yeah, it's um it's one of those things that I think it's important, uh, as I mentioned earlier, for lay people to read through an entire book at one time, whether it be a few verses a day, whether it be a chapter a day. Um I've got mindset just to go through in a year, so it's usually two or three chapters in the morning, it takes about 15 or 20 minutes. Um but you get a good sense of what's going on as you read through that way.

Jeff 12:41

Yeah, right right now I'm reading uh a very fine uh and enjoyable biography of uh John Newton. I've read lots of uh John Newton biographies. This was by Bruce Heinmarsh, and I actually know Bruce, he came to Southern did a uh uh under Fuller Conference for us of yours ago. Very fine scholar, very well written biography. But if if I were to if I were to say I'm gonna just start in chapter five of this book, in the middle of chapter five, that's how we treat the Bible.

Travis 13:05

Yeah.

Jeff 13:06

But really, it's made to be read. Uh, chronologically, I've done that many times too, and that it that's very helpful. Uh and it is a theologically annotated story. It's one story. I mean, it's about Christ, about redemption. And you know, I was teaching a a class yesterday uh to some folks over in Georgia about the by a basic biblical worldview of cre, you know, and the biblical basic outline of the Bible of creation, Genesis 1 and 2, fall, Genesis 3, redemption, which is Genesis 3, 16 to Revelation 1, and then Revelation new creation. That's a good a good a good outline of the Bible. And and uh that way when you do read uh you know Isaiah or you read Habakkuk or you're reading Job or Nehemiah or one of the historical books, first of 2nd Chronicles or something like that, you have to ask what time is it? Where am I in the sweep of redemption and redemptive history chronologically? And and that helps you interpret the right way and even apply it the right way. So yeah, I I'm I'm I'm with you. I I we here at the Baptist Courier, one of the one of the things we always want to do, always, always, we put together, we we include uh Bible reading plan in January and half in January and then half again in June, or July rather, uh toward the end of the year, uh, because we want to encourage our our uh readers to be reading the Bible. If you if you can read the Bible and you you want to read one thing today and it's the uh the courier or the Bible, read the Bible. We'll we'll let you slide on the courier. But but no, that that's and and I'm afraid m you know most Christians don't know their Bibles. And so they are confused about where to start. And I've had Christians ask me, I don't know where to start. And they do think it's kind of a magical book. It's almost it's almost used like a talisman for them. Like, okay, it's sort of you know, I think uh some of the prosperity people uh will ask you to have a life verse. And I don't know what they mean by that. It's okay to have a verse that you really means a lot to you, but but you uh you know, sometimes they'll just sort of open the Bible and point to a verse and say, That's it.

Travis 14:55

Yeah.

Jeff 14:55

Or here's what God's given me for the day.

Travis 14:57

Right.

Jeff 14:57

And and you'd never do that in this John Newton uh about you'd never do that in the Lord of the Rings, or you'd never do that in uh in uh Chronicles of Narnia, just starting the or in any other book, right? Fiction or nonfiction. If you're reading the history of World War II, you wouldn't just turn in the middle and say, right here, you know, here's Barbarossa. No, you that's not the way we handle other books. And I I would encourage uh listeners to handle the Bible chronologically, and to uh come to understanding where things are and read through it systematically, just like you said.

Travis 15:27

Yeah, I think the I think the analogy to World War II is interesting because if you just if you were to jump into the middle of a World War II history and you get to June of 1944, you think, man, what what's the big deal? This isn't so bad. It's over. Um that'd be like jumping in and saying, I'm just gonna read Acts. Well, this isn't so bad. I mean, it you know, uh Jesus has ascended and now things are great. But you've skipped thousands of years of history, of redemptive history, to really understand what's going on. In the same way that if you just jump into June of 44 with World War II, you don't understand everything that's happened in the years prior to that leading up to uh that's not just World War I, but also the intervening years and then uh those few years leading up to June of 44 uh when the U.S. jumps in. So I mean there's a there's a lot of things going on. Um you know it's interesting as well, um when we talk about the Bible, usually the passage that people refer to is 2 Timothy 3, 16 and 17. That all scriptures inspired by God, profitable for doctrine-approved correction, training, righteousness, so the man of God may be thoroughly equipped, adequate for every good work. Um and you tend to think, oh, well, that's a that it almost makes the Bible seem like a manual type type thing or uh an academic textbook. But what's interesting is is the context of 2 Timothy 3, 16 and 17 is all about persecution.

Jeff 16:47

That's right.

Travis 16:47

Uh and then in 315, Paul says, and you know from that from infancy you've known the sacred scriptures, which are able to give you wisdom for salvation through faith in Christ, and then all scripture is inspired by God. So it's much more than a uh I know when you teach, I had this at Southern and at Southwestern, I've had it at North Greenville. Um always have to tell students the Bible is not just another academic textbook that sits on your bookcase. This is something qualitatively different. It's not quantitatively different, it's still words on a page uh that fills up a bound volume, but it's qualitatively different. And it's because other books are simply written by humans without direct inspiration from the Spirit. No matter how good an article in the Baptist Cura may be written by you, Jeff, um Paul's letter to the Romans is just better. Trevor Burrus, Jr. It's superior. Yeah, it's qualitatively different. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Yeah. No matter how good my writing might be or how bad it might be, because I use too many exclamation points. Uh or I have that itis, as a professor used to tell me. Um that's qualitatively different, much lesser than anything we'd find within the inspired 66 books.

Jeff 17:59

Yeah. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, that that's right. Uh and and um one one thing that I I think evangelicals, at least in in my growing up years, uh, that I heard a lot about uh at the expense of the rest of the Bible was the book of Revelation. And we would start at the end, and and and you know, I gotta tell you, I I don't know that I know I've I have yet encountered anyone I think has the perfect grasp on the book of Revelation. I mean, John Calvin didn't write a commentary on it for that reason. He believed it was biblical, he was a brilliant man, brilliant mind, one of the most brilliant minds in in the history of the church, and yet did feel like he could come to grips with it. Um you and I both love Greg Beale's commentary on the reason.

Travis 18:38

I was about to say, if I'm gonna recommend this, I'm gonna recommend the one that Tom Shriner recommends, which is Beale's New International Greek Testament.

Jeff 18:48

So I but but but to start at the end and kind of view everything through that lens has caused a lot of problems in terms of hermeneutics, I think, in the pews.

Travis 18:57

Sure.

Handling Difficult Doctrines (Predestination & More)

Jeff 18:58

Uh because that's come from the pulpit. Um we need to hear the rest of the Bible, all the Bible, everything leading up to Revelation. I mean, he wins in the end, he's coming back literally, but we breathe but we don't that's be heresy to reject any of that. But we don't start there. Right. I mean, again, I wouldn't start this John Newton biography with, you know, the abolition of slavery in the end. I mean, this by the way, this biography is powerful. It illustrates slavery, but anything I've it was frightening because it goes into detail as John Newton in his diaries uh set it forth. But we wouldn't start in the end. We wouldn't just I wouldn't go like on the last page and read all the way forward. No one would do that. But we do that with the Bible. And you're right, we do treat it like chicken soup for the soul. We kind of I think sometimes we wish it just had tabs that said, you know, anxiety and money and anger. And it deals with all those things, but within the context of a theologically annotated story and storyline, the this meta-narrative that uh that drives uh all the scripture, which is redemption. Now let's talk for a minute about some of the doctrines that we tend to we tend to shy away from, but if we're verse by verse, book by book, um then we have to deal with them. I'll throw out one. Okay. Predestination. Oh boy. Let's just start. Let's start on top of Mount Olympus, okay, right there. Uh people uh uh Martin Lloyd Jones called Ephesians 1 and 2 the Mount Olympus of theology. Well, I agree. That means something. God chose us in him for the foundation of the world, we might be wholly and blameless on him, and love you predestined us, be adopted, predestined us to be adopted as sons. That means something. And we have to come to grips with that. And no, there is there's broad disagreement in the evangelical tradition, and I and I I acknowledge that and I'm fine with that. And I I respect I have a s you and I have a view of that. We have a view we agree with one another on that. But I respect the other side, so to speak, if you want to call it that, the other interpretation, if they deal with it biblically.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

Yeah.

Jeff 20:48

But I find that most evangelicals just want to avoid it. Right. So I never preach that. Donald, I I mean, I don't think Donald like what he said is true that he would say that I would wake up one one Monday and say, you know what, next next Sunday, I won't preach on church this one. You don't want to do. That's too difficult. And and that text in Ephesians 1, uh and Acts 13, 48, and the Gentiles began to rejoicing, and all who were ordained at eternal life believed. I heard a preacher one time preaching through Acts, totally skipped that. And I went to ask him why he said, because it's too controversial. But what does it mean? I need to know what it means. This was years ago. Our people need to know what it means. And they know what if there's a range of, you know, you don't understand, but there's a range uh of uh acceptable interpretation, give them that. I mean you need to give, you know, our people need the Bible. And uh and when you're reading the Bible, if you have a quiet time or don't don't skip over those hard things you don't understand. Get helps, get you know, talk to your pastor about it, but read those things because it they're very edifying I I find that doctrine to be incredibly edifying.

Travis 21:48

Yeah.

Jeff 21:48

Very I was fearful of it uh uh years ago, and but now I find it to be very edifying.

Travis 21:52

Yeah, and not only dealing with those with those difficult doctrines, but dealing with those difficult doctrines from a biblical perspective so that. You're not coming to the text with a preconceived notion. On whatever particular issue you're dealing with, there's always, not always, there's usually going to be more than one side. One of uh my former professors, and uh Jeff, I know you knew him well, uh, was Dr. Charlie Draper. Uh and Dr. Draper used to say very regularly, um, not to rape the text. Now that's very strong language. Uh but what he simply meant by that is don't come with a preconceived notion. Uh let the Bible speak for itself. You may not like what it says, but let it speak for itself. It it could change your mind on a number of things. He also loved to say anytime you hear a person say all scholars agree, whatever that comes next is a lie. Because all scholars don't agree on anything.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

No.

Travis 22:52

So you know don't come with a preconceived notion about predestination. Don't can don't come with a preconceived notion about uh the end times, don't come with a preconceived notion about Israel. Don't come with a preconceived notion from any perspective, whether it be the newspaper or whatever it might be, you tradition. Um don't if you're William Lane Craig, don't come to uh the doctrine of creation with a preconceived notion from science, because it gets you in a lot of trouble very quickly. Um if you're Kirk Cameron, don't come to the text with a preconceived notion about hell.

Jeff 23:26

Exactly.

Applying This Personally: How Christians Should Read the Bible

Travis 23:27

Uh just because you don't like it or you're simply you simply have questions about it. Um if uh we can kind of step outside Baptist life and maybe say to our Presbyterian friends, hey, don't come to texts about baptism with a preconceived notion. That's right. Uh let's just read what the text has to say. Now for Baptists, that's true as well. Um there there may be some things that Baptists believe or have believed in the past that were incorrect, and we we checked the Bible again, and we said, Oh, well, we were wrong there. Uh so let's let's check our tradition and and preconceived notions at the door, see what the Bible actually says. Um So yeah, it don't come to the text thinking you already know what it's going to say. Let the text speak for itself. Um as you mentioned, Jeff, if if you have questions about that, go to a pastor, uh consult trustworthy resources. If uh if you have a hard time getting to your pastor just because of whatever reason, then I would say, hey, contact the Baptist courier, you can contact our office at the association, we'd be more than happy to share um trustworthy resources with you, point you in the right direction, so that uh you can get the most out of reading the Bible for what it is. Um one of the hermeneutics books, um uh the study of interpreting scripture, one of those books that we used in seminary was how to read the Bible for all it's worth. Um and that's what we're getting at here. You know, read the Bible for for what it is, and each book has a particular genre that it's written in, it has a particular cultural setting, historical setting it's written in, um, a particular audience it's written to. All those things have to be taken into account when you read it. You can't just read Revelation and think, oh, that's prophecy for the future. Well, there's also some stuff in the past. Uh so yeah. Anyway, just not coming with preconceived notions, but letting the Bible speak for itself.

Jeff 25:16

And I would add to that, don't come with emotions.

Travis 25:19

Yep.

Jeff 25:19

Um predestination uh is an emotional doctrine. It comes with an emotional baggage and we come and we're angry. I've heard people uh I've I've I've been had it said to my face, I would never serve a God who's like that. I wouldn't I wouldn't want to say that. Uh because we do see it through a glass darkly. Um not that I again not that I have uh 2020 vision on that doctrine, but I'm just saying um I wouldn't I wouldn't want to say that, but it's emotion. And even the uh I wrote this book on uh doctrine of perseverance kept by God that came out just a few weeks ago. And I basically wrote that because of a a um a debate that arose within my family. And a very uh the the the the other side was very emotional about that. You can forfeit your salvation. Uh and uh and and they're very emotional. And the arguments that make are emotional, but they're not textual. And my encouragement was go to the text, put your lay your emotions aside, lay your experience aside that you've something you think you've seen, and let the Bible weigh your experience. Weigh your experience on the scales of scripture, not your the script the scripture on the scales of experience. And emotion and experience, they tend to go together. And if you don't feel your heart strangely warmed every day to read the Bible, read the Bible anyway. And because you're not uh, you know, that because emotion uh can get you in trouble uh pretty quickly a lot. And uh the the the Bible will change your heart and warm your heart in places and and and it can make you feel good, it can make you feel terrible about your sin, it can convict you. There's all kinds of the full range of human experience we can we found by reading the Bible, but but lay your emotions aside when it comes to interpretation, because like you said about Israel, for example, or the end times, there's so many nasty debates, rancorous, bitter debates about that, but they're not based on the text.

Travis 27:01

What's always interesting to me about those particular issues is um the issues that really matter. So to use Moller's triage, the the first-level issues, the heaven or hell issues, are ones that are not impacted by emotion. They're not impacted by preconceived notions. God exists, He's He's in Trinity, uh, the Son and the Spirit of the other two members of the Trinity with the Father, uh, the virgin birth, the inerrancy of scripture, all those things that that Jesus will come back in bodily form at some point in the future, those things that ultimately matter for heaven or hell issues usually are not impacted by emotion. It's the second level, which which kind of splits denominations but doesn't split heaven or hell, and the third level, which splits Sunday school classes but are not heaven or hell, are the ones that are usually impacted by emotion. So uh yeah, yes, check check emotions as much as you can at the door, uh, but at the same time realize that that where God has spoken plainly, he exists, he is not silent, to quote Francis Schaefer. His son is the only way to redemption through faith in him. The Spirit has spoken and continues to speak through the word, through the indwelling presence. Uh all those issues, those are just not questioned. They should not be questioned because they're just as plain as the black and white on the page. That's right. Uh so yeah, it's a it's a it's a lot of fun to read it, it's a lot of fun to talk about it. Um it's usually a lot more fun for the nerds like us. Um but hey, the Bible is not only charged. Yeah, the Bible uh is for, as Francis Schaefer said, it's for lawyers and ditch diggers. It's for everybody that's out there.

Jeff 28:36

Amen. So the bottom line as we close up shop here for this episode, read the Bible, read it, read it systematically. Pastors, preach it. Preach it book by book, verse by verse, preach it the way the Spirit inspired it. Study it that way, know it that way, love it that way, accept it that way. And uh and and you will see uh growth and change and transformation because that's how God has designed his word and what he's invested in it. So this is uh the battle for the Bible that Southern Baptists fought in the 70s and early 80s will continue till Jesus comes back, and so we'll continue to talk about this and other topics related to it in the future. Thank you for listening to this podcast of the Baptist Couerer and Career Publishing. Be sure to follow us on all social media platforms, give us a five-star review, and send any question you want us to consider to Career Conversations at gmail.com. If you prefer to watch our conversations, check us out on YouTube by clicking the link in the description.