Does Being Conservative Make You a Christian? | Liberal Theology vs Biblical Christianity

🚨 Join us on YouTube

🔔 Subscribe for weekly updates

📬 Send in your questions to courierconversations@gmail.com

Does being politically conservative make someone a Christian? Can a theological liberal truly claim Christianity? In this episode of Courier Conversations, Jeff and Dr. Johnson explore the growing cultural debate surrounding faith, politics, and identity. Using current events, including the rise of Texas politician James Talarico and commentary from David French, they examine the difference between historic, orthodox Christianity and modern theological liberalism.

The conversation dives into biblical authority, the role of doctrine, and why being “nice” isn’t the same as being Christian. They also unpack misconceptions about Christian nationalism, the MAGA movement, and how political labels often get confused with genuine faith.

If you’re looking for clarity on Christianity, politics, and truth in today’s culture, this episode offers a thoughtful, theological perspective rooted in Scripture and Church history.

------------------

WEBSITES:

baptistcourier.com

courierpublishing.com

INSTAGRAM:

instagram.com/thebaptistcourier

instagram.com/courierpublishing1821

FACEBOOK:

facebook.com/thebaptistcourier

facebook.com/p/Courier-Publishing

X:

x.com/BaptistCourier

x.com/Courier1821

x.com/CourierConvos

Transcript

wo Timely Questions About Faith

Jeff 0:08

Welcome to Courier Conversations. I am Jeff Robinson, your host. I am president and editor-in-chief of the Baptist Courier and Courier Publishing. And with me today is my co-host, my sometimes co-host, and we are glad to have you back, the perfect man for what we're going to discuss today. To talk about really two questions, and they're in the news, so we're this is this is very it's always current, but it's extremely current right now. And that is, does being conservative make a person a Christian? And can a liberal, and by this we mean a theological liberal, which usually comes with political liberalism, can that person make a claim to be a Christian? And so you have taught philosophy and theology of all kinds, because you always have to compare it against uh the truth over against the the the falsehood for decades. So welcome to back to the the the show. And uh this is a very current topic always, isn't it?

Dr. Johnson 1:19

Yes, it is, and I certainly appreciate the opportunity of being back. I have a a good time every time.

hy James Talarico Sparks Debate

Jeff 1:26

Well, we are uh he writes a monthly column, uh, What the Bible says about you name it uh for the Baptist Courier. We're thrilled to have scooped him up after I told him I wasn't gonna let him retire. There's just too much there, and we're not gonna let it go to waste. And so today in particular, this has risen in the news because of an election in Texas where James uh Tellerico has emerged as the uh Democrat candidate for the Senate, uh for the Senate uh seat there in Texas. Uh he is uh going up against uh one, there's a been a runoff on there on the Republican side against one of uh two conservatives there. But uh what makes James Taller Rico so interesting is he is uh the the secular media always uh always identifies him as a seminary student. And he is a seminar student and he has beliefs and he uh he claims to be bringing his Christianity into the public square. And uh a uh a columnist, uh David French, many of our listeners will know that name, uh a New York Times columnist wrote a column about him last week, in which uh David, who is uh who considers himself a conservative evangelical, not much unlike us, again, how he considers himself, uh we'll we'll just say he's very friendly, considers him a Christian, a a nice guy. And so uh this plays right into the puts a practical face and a uh current face on the two questions we're uh we're wanting to answer today. So uh uh this this is this is an ongoing thing. So for the first thing, um being conservative. You're conservative, I'm conservative, uh but what does that have to do with orthodox historic evangelical Christianity?

hat Defines A Christian Historically

Dr. Johnson 3:13

Yeah, obviously uh you know Christianity has a history, as does every other religion. And simply because a person claims to be a Christian doesn't mean that they are. We live in sort of a society where uh you know you get to identify as whatever you want, and if that's what you say you are, then who can say you aren't? And I would say, well, uh history says whether you are or are you not. And there is a meaning to what being a Christian is, and uh that certainly involves at the very core doctrinal elements, doctrinal statements, confessions, creed, beliefs. And uh if a person steps outside of those beliefs, I I don't think there's a right to to call themselves a Christian. Uh again, they can say they identify with that, but they're not going to be Christian in any traditional sense of the word. Uh and if you'll notice, uh you don't even I start to say if you notice carefully, sometimes you don't have to notice clear uh carefully, it's glaring, that the way they interpret the doctrines of the faith are completely different than what has been in line with traditional Christianity. And in many, many cases on these core doctrines, uh it would be places where uh even Roman Catholicism and Orthodox and Protestants and almost would actually agree on most of those things. And when a person steps outside those boundaries, you know, you you you can't uh in good faith, it seems to me, call yourself a Christian.

iblical Authority And Liberal Theology

Jeff 4:57

Well, the issue here, of course, with uh Jane, and James Tallerico, just a more biography. He is uh State Representative in Texas, 36 years old, very winsome, uh very attractive in terms of the way he uh uh uh goes about his uh his debating tactics, very kind-hearted seemingly, and seems to be the kind of guy you would uh love to have as your next door neighbor, make a phenomenal neighbor. Well uh but uh uh David French uh calls him here, but but but uh well but but to finish that thought, um by any any uh any measure is um I would say far left on issues of LGBTQ plus, uh on abortion, on the social issues that evangelicals would strongly disagree with him on. He seems to believe in a Jesus who's very different. Just a couple of quotes here from him. Um uh from his uh Twitter for or ex formerly Twitter. He says, our trans community needs abortion care too. So when I use the word woman, it should not be understood as an exhaustive term, but rather as a lens through which to understand, examine, and to interrogate patriarchy. Okay, so there's one. Another, uh, Texas uh Senate hopeful James Talarico says about being Christian and being pro-choice are absolutely consistent because Christianity is a feminist religion before explaining that Jesus, quote, Jesus was a radical feminist and probably pro-choice. Uh and and uh he says that think about that, the only person to teach Jesus something was a woman because she was the only person ever to beat Jesus in uh debate.

hristian Nationalism And The Nice Test

Dr. Johnson 6:36

So let's see. Uh this woman taught Jesus something, therefore Jesus was a feminist. Uh put that in the form of a syllogism, you know, and try to see if you get that kind of conclusion. Uh there's a premise missing, you know, that would be vital to that. So those are cognitive leaps in an argument, you know, w whether and I would even question some of that, you know, where Jesus would probably have been whatever. I'm just saying, well, where's your biblical authority for that? Uh and that's why I'm saying with any of these people, if you go back and start examining, the issue is much more on biblical authority, you know, is uh uh and sometimes they will try to appeal to biblical authority. But, you know, as I and I think one of them was saying, you know, Jesus never mentioned abortion. Right. Well, uh there's a couple of problems with that. First of all, that's using what I call the red letter Bible. You know, the only Bible that you use is the that that's written in red, that Jesus said it. Uh Jesus uh uh authenticated, validated the entire Old Testament. Uh Christianity sees the Bible as the Word of God, not simply the teachings of Jesus. So that's a problem. Uh most liberal theology, which is clearly what he is espousing here, uh, most liberal uh theology just holds to the teachings of Jesus, and then they hold those selectively. Uh and then they will make a statement such as, well, Jesus never mentioned abortion. Well, Jesus never mentioned uh racial racial prejudice. Um He never mentioned how uh care for the environment. He never mentioned whether or not nations ought to go to war, but it's odd they don't mention any of those things. They're very selective. Uh and so I think we see the same thing going on there. They're they're making just cognitive leaps in their arguments, and I noticed when Jesus would probably have been for abortion. Uh I didn't hear any biblical quotes coming on that. Um you hear jumping from, you know, here's a person, he he only learned from a a woman, so therefore he's a feminist. Um that Jesus was a feminist. It's funny, it they're just reading much more of their own experience, contemporary experience, back into the text rather than doing exegetical work on the text itself. So I think it I think this is c a clear case. We're just revisiting, and I know you talked about you were going to mention it, you're just revisiting the classical liberal theology that came into prominence in America, you know, what from uh uh 1885 to boy by 1930 it was pretty much complete. Um and and it's so you're seeing a replay uh of that.

Jeff 9:37

Well, Telurico is uh what what makes him attractive to David French is his attack on what he calls Christian, what French calls Christian nationalism, which he largely defines as the MAGA movement. It's very but it's very uh he leaves it undefined. And here's what uh here's what French wrote in his column last week at the New York Times. He said, uh Telarico is one of the few openly Christian politicians in the United States who acts like a Christian. He's a nice guy. And by acting like a Christian, he reveals the profound contrast with so many members of the MAGA-Christian movement that's dominated American political life for 10 years. For too long, we've evaluated Christians in political politics primarily through their policy positions. Are you pro-life or pro-choice? Do you support same-sex marriage? What's your position on immigration? Yet this is exactly backward, he says. So I think what he's saying here is that Tallerico is a genuine Christian because he's a nice guy. And MAGA, because of all the sharp edges, and there are lots and lots of sharp edges, we would uh grant that, uh, is unchristian. And now we're not here, and I know I know your heart, I'm known, I know you well, that we're not advocating for some kind of combative, abrasive Christianity. We don't believe that's Christ-like either. But which which is why I asked the question: does being a conservative or being a part of MAGA, even if you identify yourself that way, does that make you a Christian? Well, I mean, it seems to me that French is leaving a lot of things undefined here, as if MAGA is synonymous with evangelical Christianity.

hy Nice Is Not A Worldview

Dr. Johnson 11:06

Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I mean, so much of it is undefined, nationalism undefined. Um, you know, uh and that's where we have to be very careful because uh any view that stands for anything like Christian morality uh in a modern day, you know, uh same-sex marriage, um, you know, homosexuality, any of these things we've talked about, if you hold any of those things, there are people that just tag you as being a Christian nationalist. Well, and then but a Christian nationalist is also these people who are almost w ready to take up arms and cause a revolution. Well, if you categorize both of those as Christian nationalism, you actually can't even communicate through an issue because the the the word is means so much, it means nothing. And so, yes, they they fail to distinguish. Sometimes I read those things and I, you know, these people are nothing but mean, and I'm saying, that's uh y'all are talking to different people than I am. You know, uh I know people that hold these views, and none of them are mean. You know, and by the way, I would take somebody that was opposed to abortion, same-sex marriage, you know, k killing babies, I would take them and not being a real nice person than I would a nice person who stood for all those things. Um nice is not a worldview. You know. What you're looking at is worldview. And where do where does that where does this person stand? What's their final authority? Where do they stand on these issues? Um an atheist can be kind, a Muslim can be kind, a Christian can be kind. Uh we ought to all be kind, there's no question about that. That's not the issue that's on the table. The issue is the issue of truth, and where is truth grounded and where is truth found. And if you question people like our friend from Texas, you will find that he's not just disagreeing with Christianity on these issues. And when I say disagree with Christianity, I mean you've got to remember you go back to the Didique, um, the epistle of Barnabas, Tertonium, they all spoke very uh firmly against abortion. I mean, that has been a Christian position. But what you'll find out is this person is not holding aberrant views simply on marriage and homosexuality. You will find out that every major theological doctrine, you're gonna find out he's holding an aberrant theology on. But most people, and this is what he's counting on, are not gonna be thinking about that. They're gonna see a nice guy, and we like to vote for nice guys, particularly if the other guys are presented as not nice. You know, and if he can feel appeal to five percent of the voters that way that are swing, he he could he could pull that off, and which is exactly what he's wanting to do.

Jeff 14:01

Well, you look at Mayor Momdani in New York, who had recently elected uh mayor of New York, who is a uh calls himself a a Democratic socialist and is a Muslim and been very open about that. But he seems like a very winsome guy and a nice guy. He'd be likable, he he would he well, he might make a good neighbor. I mean, you know, but he's not a Christian. And uh and uh Sal Rico, yeah, he is winsome, and uh I I get that. I d I do think we could use more, we I think we would agree we need more winsomeness in our political discourse for sure. And and uh the MAGA movement, I think it's wrong-headed, first of all, to make Christian nationalism MAGA movement to lump all those in with historic Orthodox Christianity, because I mean there are I do believe there are some uh of our leaders in Washington who s who uh seem to have strong theological beliefs that are biblical grounded in scripture. I mean uh Marco Rubio, uh hearing him at uh Charlie Crook's funeral and spoke and gave a uh uh a beautiful rendition of the gospel. Uh Peter Pete Heggseth did the same thing in others. You and uh but I think I don't think anyone in that movement is saying we're here to uphold historic Orthodox Christianity and uh and American exceptionalism as one and the same. Right. And so that's where the the question is I think we can kind of can collapse in MAGA and politics, uh conservative politics in on Orthodox Christianity. They're not the same thing. One may lead to the other, one might be uh one might be the uh uh the the the outcome of the other, but uh they're not the same thing.

Dr. Johnson 15:38

Yes, I've got a a neighbor, you know, very good neighbor, who is very, very strong MAGA, you know. Um but he's not a Christian. Um, you know, so those two are not hand in hand. I think a lot of times, you know, God's general revelation to us tells us a lot. A person doesn't have to be a Christian, for instance, to know, uh, you know, read the book of of uh Amos that you know that uh you you you shouldn't take a uh instrument of iron and rip open pregnant women. I mean, you don't have to have a Bible to tell you something's wrong with that. You know, and and so and so just simply based on general revelation, there are people who would understand certain truths and stand for those that would not necessarily claim to be Christian.

Jeff 16:28

That's right.

irm Convictions Debate And Final Wrap

Dr. Johnson 16:28

Um common grace. Common grace, that's certainly I think fits uh you have sort of right in with the general revelation, but they're exactly right. Just by common grace they would uh know that. But again, there they're uh sometimes again when they make these broad claims, these MAGA people being so mean, I keep saying, tell me exactly who you're talking about. And then also they're sometimes associating mean or not nice with being firm. Right. You know, when you're when you when you hold to um uh you know the rule of law and you draw a line and say that's what we're going to do, is that being mean? Um it uh it's easy to depict somebody that way. So a lot of times, you know, they talk about this person's so kind, well the other person's so kind too, they're just having to take some steps politically to correct some things that makes a person look very mean in doing it. So I I think that's a problem. But I still go back to theologically, you know. I mean, if a person wants to hold those political positions, that's okay. But to try to say they're Christian, um they they've got an argument that they're gonna have to make that they haven't made. And if you go right all the way back to Agresham Majin, as we've talked about in his book, uh if you go all the way back to that, you can't make the argument at all because it is you know, it is not Christianity that they're actually espousing. It's a new religion that they are calling by that name. That's right. That's the thing that bothers me the most in it. Uh political disagreements there can be there. But don't call something Christian or yourself a Christian if what you're believing is out of line with 2,000 years of Christian of Christian history.

Jeff 18:10

Well, and one question I I would like to ask David French if he were here is do you uh ask him, do you think that progressives on Capitol Hill, are they ever combative? Are they ever assertive? Do they ever speak in black and white terms in the way things not uh the way things ought to be an oughtness about their beliefs? They certainly do. They impose them on they they they in some ways it seems seek to oppose their will uh impose their will on uh the populace and things like DEI and and uh you know all the all the different critical theories and all those things have driven much of the uh much of the policies over the past uh four or five years, real really uh the you know last um ten years, a couple of the administrations. So are they ever firm or seemingly mean-spirited? Well, I mean, just look at some of the hearings that go on day in and day out and on the hill, and uh I think you'll see some firmness and combativeness in those people because they believe their ideas are right and they're arguing for them. We just we we don't I think we've lost any sense of history in terms of understanding that there's a polemical tradition within the Christian faith, and there's a polemical tradition within hit politics. We debate and we debate strenuously. Uh go back to the Reformation, I mean Luther uh at Vorms and look at Augustine, the plagians, and I mean, even Luther, some of the colorful language used to describe his opponents and the popes and the woodcut drawings he did. I mean, he took the gloves off because truth was at stake. And so I don't know it it seems like uh progressives want to kind of shut or the progressive leadings uh fellows want to shut down debate and say we just got to be nice when they're not very nice either about some of these things. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Dr. Johnson 19:46

Yeah. I mean they're not they're they're not equally applying their criticisms.

Jeff 19:50

Right.

Dr. Johnson 19:51

Uh they're they're carving out for themselves a little space where it doesn't apply to them. Uh and I think the difference, and this is where uh uh you know there's gonna want to a person's wanting to make a difference is I'm just trying to be firm and be real nice. And there's a lot of people that are gonna latch on to that. Yeah, we need more niceness, and probably we do. But again, firm convictions, um, a lot of times it just a person comes across as being mean-spirited. Um, and there's you know, distortions of what people actually say. Uh I mean, you get on the internet now and say, this person says this person, well, what did they what did they say? What was the context of that? And then did they even say it at all? But yeah, I mean, they just leave out, you know, other people. I mean, you look at some of the people that are shouting. The people that shouted at at um at Trump's State of the Union that stood up, it's like, you know, are those people mean-spirited? Well, no, they were just standing up for what they believe. Well, you know, what's good though what's good for the goose is good for the gander, the old saying goes.

Jeff 21:03

Thank you for listening to this podcast of the Baptist Career and Career Publishing. Be sure to follow us on all social media platforms, give us a five-star review, and send any questions you want us to consider at Career Conversations at gmail.com. If you prefer to watch our conversations, check us out on YouTube by clicking the link in the description.