Everyone’s a Theologian

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In this episode of Courier Conversations, Jeff Robinson and Travis Kerns explain why every Christian is a theologian. Discover how sound doctrine leads to worship, why theology matters for everyday believers, and how knowing God through Scripture shapes faithful living.

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Transcript

Welcome And The Series Vision

Jeff 0:07

Welcome to another episode of Courier Conversations. I am your host, Jeff Robinson, and with me, as always, is my co-host Travis Kerns. And today we're going to pick up on sort of on a topic we've dealt with the last two episodes. We've been talking about the sovereignty of God, and we have decided that we love talking about theology so much, so we're going to kind of today begin a and what we're going to call an occasional series. We're going to call this Everyone's a Theologian. And we're going to, I'm stealing this from uh uh one of my and your theological heroes, R. C. Sproul, who wrote a book by this title 10 or so years ago, uh, arguing that everyone's a theologian. And what you're gonna what you're gonna see in this series or here in this series uh is going to be uh doctrine. We're gonna unpack the doctrine sort of systematically just over the next uh few months or years, uh just you know, 25 minutes at a time, looking at the doctrines kind of in order. We'll look at scripture next time, and then doctor of man, God, Christ, Spirit, and end times. And uh just as a part of our our threefold, uh our threefold mission uh plan here at uh the Baptist Courier is to inform, instruct, inspire. This will be part of instructing, uh, which we've done a lot of since in my time here, and so that will be that uh middle I uh that we're aiming to uh to fulfill. And so today we're gonna talk about the necessity of knowing theology, why theology is not for seminary students or theology geeks or somebody trying to find themselves or something like that, that theology is for everyone.

Why Everyone Is A Theologian

Jeff 1:40

Because, Travis, why do we say everyone's a theologian? Because the pushback is going to be, I'm not a theologian, I just love Jesus.

Travis 1:48

Yeah, so my um I can remember growing up uh when I first told my grandmother in North Georgia uh that I was going to seminary, she said, or when I was going to North Greenville to do religion at North Greenville, she said, Oh, honey, I just want to love Jesus. I said, Well, Granny, which Jesus? Well, just my Jesus. Okay, well, which one is that? She said, Well, the Jesus that lives in my heart. Okay, well, Granny, I love you, but you're doing theology because how can a man live in your heart? That's I I know some men are smaller than others, and some hearts are bigger than others, but your heart's not big enough for a man to get in there and, you know, make up his bed at night. So, yeah, everyone's a theologian. The Bible calls everybody to write belief, uh, which there are plenty of of Old and New Testament texts we can get into uh as we move along through this. Um But as you said, Jeff, just because we say everyone's a theologian doesn't necessarily mean that everyone is called to do a PhD in systematic theology or a master's degree or an undergraduate degree for that matter in theology. It's simply knowing what you believe and why you believe it. That's it.

Jeff 2:47

That's it. And and it's it's hard to understand, because I guess we do this for a living, so maybe it's hard for us to understand this, but how theology has become such a dirty word among evangelicals, even Southern Baptists. Because when we're talking theology at the convention every year, like if we we have, you know, we don't have a lot of theological controversy. We're talking about theology. I think that's a good thing, right? It's not uh even if we debate things, it it's a good thing because we're not, you know, like some of the mainline denominations debating whether or not we should ordain homosexuals or ordain women. Of course, there is a little debate about those.

Travis 3:20

Or apologize to plants eating plants. Right. Right.

Jeff 3:23

Yeah, exactly. And so we're we're talking theology. That that's a good thing. So what is theology? Well, I love uh I'm I'm gonna draw a little bit on sproll here because he's uh I've learned a lot of my theology and he's a was a Presbyterian, but I am a Baptist as a Baptist podcast, and you all know that. We don't apologize for that, but uh we we I I I knew him a little and just really loved him, uh his ministry, and it continues to minister to me. But uh he argues that it refers to theology refers not only to God, but to all that God has revealed to us in sacred scripture, studying that. And uh because let's face it, the Bible is a book of theology. Uh it is a theologically annotated story, I think is a maybe a good way to describe the Bible, right? And so that that that pushes us and involves us in the enterprise known as theology, which is a study of God. And what would we want to be giving ourselves to? I mean, when you say Jesus is Lord, that is a theological statement.

Travis 4:18

Very theological. Yep.

Jeff 4:20

If you say there is no God, Psalm 14.1, the fool has said in his heart that there is no God. That is a deeply theological statement, right? So everybody has a theology. Even a hardened atheist who doesn't believe in God has a theology. That's his theology. And the question is, and I say this all the time at the churches I pastor over the years, and at Abner Creek or I'm now I teach a systemic theology class there. I'm always saying the question is, will you be a good theologian or a bad theologian? But Travis, why do we all want to be theologians? I I uh people say, well, like you said, your grandmother said, over in and we love North Georgia, uh, your roots are there in mine too. But uh but I'm not a theologian, I didn't go to seminary. What what's uh how how how would you take up that argument?

Travis 5:05

Yeah, uh my answer, you know, with my grandmother, which I mentioned earlier, was simply, you know, you have something you believe in. What is it you believe in? Um and you know, her response, honey, I just want to love Jesus and read my Bible and be a good person. Which is fine. There's nothing wrong with that. And that that's something we probably need to address. Um the the issue becomes when we when we say, well, I don't want to, you know, not necessarily study the deeper things. I don't want to study anything at all. I don't want to read anything at all. Every time you open your Bible, you're doing theology. Simply by trusting the text, you're doing theology. By believing that the Bible is God's word, you're doing theology. How did we how does the spirit being get this word to us? How does the spirit being speak? How does he inspire the authors? Question after question after question. So the the the main issue though we have to deal with is with lay people, especially, and sometimes some pastors, unfortunately, most with lay people, is there is a there are three real distinct categories here that we have to deal

Understanding Assent And Denial

Travis 6:15

with. The first one is cognitive understanding. So in your brain, you understand theological issues. This is probably somebody who's either a really well-read layman or a pastor or a church staff member who has either studied a lot or been through some type of academic program in a college or seminary, cognitive understanding. Uh the second uh category is cognitive ascent. So you agree to the doctrines described to you from Scripture. My grandmother was in the cognitive ascent category. So if I asked her, Granny, describe for me or explain for me the Trinity, explain to me what the Trinity is, she would say Father, Son, and Spirit. And all those three are one, but they're three separate and distinct beings, but the three are one. And I'd say, okay, that's fine. If I were to describe to her a classical doctrine of the Trinity, she would say, Yeah, that's what I believe. That's cognitive assent. She doesn't understand it. Of course, none of us understand the Trinity or any of these theological things fully, but she's not going to do the work to understand it. That's okay. The third category is where we get into trouble, that's cognitive denial. So understanding, assent, denial. We all have to be in the understanding or the assent category. The denial part is where heaven or hell issues come in. So if I were to ask my grandmother to describe the Trinity, and she does to the best of her ability, and then she and I describe an orthodox understanding of the Trinity to her, and she says, no, no, that's not what I believe, then I would say, okay, wait a minute. Now we're in the denial category. So what we're not saying in this uh podcast and the subsequent ones to follow is that everybody has to have cognitive understanding. But you need to at least be at the point where when you read the text, when you're studying scripture, whether it be through a devotional guide or books by guys like Sprohl or whatever it might be, you have to at least be at the point where you can say, Yes, I believe that and know why you believe it. So not every ha not everybody has to be a trained theologian, understanding. Everybody has to be a theologian, assent. Yeah. That's right.

Relationship Requires Right Belief

Jeff 8:23

No, that that that's a great way way to look at it. And I hear the argument pretty often that, well, you know, you've got your theology, but I've got my relationship with Jesus. And and while Christianity is not a religion, it's a relationship. That's right. And while that has a a a sound an air of of uh uh you know some clap value, I guess you might say, uh it it is true that it is a relationship, but do you think about your relationship with your wife, with Stacy, and my relationship with Lisa? I don't just know about Lisa. I know Lisa intimately. And I know her because I've read her writing, so to speak. I know her favorite color, I know her favorite food, I know her children, I know uh where she came from, I know.

Travis 9:04

And you with Lisa, like me with Stacy, you know the particular look she might have on her face when you've done something you should not be able to do.

Jeff 9:10

Every single thing. She doesn't have to say a word. You just know I know her intimately. So how do I know? Well, because I've spent time with her, maybe even asking questions and listening. Well, the the parallel to that is how do we know God? Well, we listen, and how do we listen? Well, it's not a mystical, uh, some kind of mystical reality in the sense of we get special revelation ourselves, but it's a special, it's it's the it's the uh way God has revealed himself in nature, but not just nature, but more fully, more uh more fully and and certainly in the writings of the prophets and the apostles.

Travis 9:44

Yeah, and I would even back up and say, if you want to say that you, you know, you've got your theology, I've got my relationship with Jesus, okay. A number of questions come into mind here. How do you have a relationship with Jesus? Number one. Right. Number two, why does that matter that you have a relationship with with some guy who died if if you say, well, he got it from the grave. Okay, well, what does that mean? Why does that make a difference? Uh well, because he's God in the flesh. Okay, now wait a minute, now we're doing theology, now you're past the relationship and you're into understanding who Jesus is. So there's much more to it. It's almost like a bad version of some pietistic cop-out to get out of trying to understand the things of Scripture.

Jeff 10:23

That's right. Well, and and just like in the relationships we have, otherwise, we they have over time, as we've studied them, so to speak, they've revealed themselves to us. So God has revealed himself to us in the Word of God. And so as we study the Word of God, we come to know Scripture. And we know God. We don't just know about God. Now you could know about God, but we know Him as we prayerfully engage the Bible. And so uh evangelicals and Southern Baptists who read their Bibles, they know more theology than they realize, and they are theologians, whether they like it or know it or not. And of course, I know that we usually mean, well, someone who studied the Academy and has a bunch of letters out to the right of their names and things like that. They teach theology and they, you know, and write books about theology. And of course, you and I do that. Uh, but that's not what we're I I want, here's what I'm after with this podcast and with the Baptist Courier magazine, and with the books that the Courier Publishing um uh publish, and when we co-sponsor events, it's it's so people will know sound doctrine, that they'll be good theologians, they'll know God's word, they'll know God, and so they will be good theologians. I mean, that's a big part of our task here at the Baptist Courier uh in my three years here and in the future that instruct. We were informed and inspired, but now we're instruct, and that's a big because you won't inspire speak to sanctification. You'll be inspired to live a godly life. You can't do that until you know, you have the knowledge, the first level you talked about. You can't you can't live for God until you know God, who He is, right?

Travis 11:48

And Yeah, the old the old theological saying that we hear all the time orthodoxy leads to orthopraxy, not the other way around. So right belief leads to right living. So to put it in the in the analogy used earlier of, well, you've got your theology, I've got my relationship, you can't have a relationship without the theology.

Jeff 12:04

That's right.

Travis 12:05

Right. And it's also important to say that Christianity is both a religion, it's a set of doctrinal beliefs and a relationship. That it's both and if we have if you've got 51% religion and 49% relationship, you've missed the boat. If it's 49 theology and or religion and 51 relationship, you've missed the boat. It's got to be an equal split between the two. You have to know the right thing to do the right thing.

Jeff 12:28

That's right.

Travis 12:28

Yeah.

Jeff 12:29

No, that that that's exactly

Why Systematic Theology Helps

Jeff 12:31

right. So with this series, again, and it'll be an occasional series. It won't be every time you listen to us. It might, we might go a month or two without doing it, depends on what's in the news or what were uh other other uh things we want to address. But we want to look at these things systematically, and that involves us in what's called systematic theology. Don't let that scare you, don't let that frighten you at all. That's a uh that's uh not just a seminary term, but it's it's that that that christian Christianity can be broken down in a system because the Bible is repetitive. It only talks about a handful of things related to God and related to redemption, and basically creation, fall redemption, new creation, but within that framework, you know, it tells us about scripture tells us about itself, its self-attesting. We'll talk, we're gonna talk about scripture. That's that's where we're gonna start the next time we do this. And then we'll go to man, who man is. Are we basically good? It's a theological statement to say that we are fallen or that we're basically good. Those are those are massively have massive theological implications, those statements do. And then, of course, the doctrine of God, and then Christ, and all that entails and the Holy Spirit, and you see the Trinitarian arrangement there. Uh, and then uh we'll get toward the end times and not not just when is he coming back, but what happens to us when we die? What about heaven, what about hell? It just involves a lot of things that most of you out there, if you're listening to this, you already believe. But you know, my mind works well in sort of systems. I like to I like to I like to think in a linear fashion. And the Bible, the the Bible is repetitive, and so we're able to systematize these things, not in an artificial way, but in a very naturally I think it systematizes itself. Am I right about that or am I out to lunch?

Travis 14:08

Yeah, no, I think you're right. Uh a lot of a lot of times there's, especially in theological circles and theological debates and writings, there's a uh a differentiation created between biblical theology and systematic theology. Uh and there is some, you know, in finer points of nuance, there are some differences in those, but the Bible does present um a particular type of belief and a particular system of belief that the church from Acts chapter two until today has put together in some linear fashion so that man can best understand it, whether that be through uh sermons that you see through Acts from the Apostles or evangelistic encounters, writings like Romans from Paul, uh the the author of Hebrews presents a very good systematic theology of the Old Testament and its fulfillment in Christ. You see it uh in the early church in the forms of councils and creeds, and then you see it later obviously in Baptist life, not in creeds, because we're not a creedal people, but in confessions of faith from probably one of the most popular that's that's widely known from Second London up until now, the Baptist Faith in Message 2000, working through various iterations between 1689 and 2000. Um the Bible presents a case uh descriptively, not prescriptively, but descriptively for understanding what we believe in a systematic fashion. I mean, for crying out loud, the Bible starts in the beginning, God. So there's where we start. That's right. And revelation ends with, Come quickly, Lord Jesus. Yep. So there's the end times.

Jeff 15:47

It's a na it's natural.

Travis 15:48

It's just a natural flow. Yeah.

Jeff 15:51

Yeah. Within within I mean the Bible was written over thousands of years by dozens of authors, and there's variety. There's all kinds of literature genre, there's all kinds of arguments, there's all kinds of stories, lots of stories, but within that variety, there's unity.

Travis 16:06

Right.

Jeff 16:06

And I think that's what systematic theology shows, is there's unity then with scripture. It just teaches these things. And like you said, it's it's it's quite a the Holy Spirit did a good job of sort of systematizing this, not like we do maybe in a systematic theology book that that uh systematic theologians write. Uh, but uh we we we focus on the consistency of revelation and the unity of revelation.

From Sound Doctrine To Worship

Jeff 16:28

Um sproling says systematic theologians understand that each point in theology addresses every other point. So there is a unity there. And so we're able to pull out, say, justification by faith and look at Romans and Galatians and other Colossians and other places in Paul's writings in particular, very clear on what justification by faith is, so that we we bring all those all those passages together and they teach the same thing, and that's part of our system. It's not a and and uh this makes people nervous, I realize, and say, well, you're gonna put a system on this, you start laying down a grid on it. No, we're not. It's already there, isn't it? Just like you said. I mean, it was beginning with in the beginning God, God spoke, that's his word, that's God and his word, and then you know, all the way to the end times in the book of Revelation, which fascinates so many of us. Uh, and so we want to take this uh uh in in 25-minute blocks and just kind of unpack. And some of you, this may be old Haddon, uh, but but to me, um, I have dozens of systematic theology books. And one of my sons asked me one day, why do you have so many systematic theology? You really need like 200 of those. I said, you know, I do because it's edifying. I'll just sit down and I heard John MacArthur say this once. So actually, an interview I did with him. He said, I just wanted to sit down and read a piece of theology. Meaning he would sit down and pull, you know, Calvin's Institutes off the shelf or or uh um James Montgomery Boyce uh commentary or something. You just read it, read a piece of theology, and just edify him. So if you know this, and this is old hat to you, don't yawn and turn us off. We want it to be edifying too, because really it is a matter of sound theology should learn to do lead to doxology, should learn to worship. Because who is it we worship? How do we worship him? Well, the Bible tells us that, and that is the domain of theology.

Travis 18:13

Yeah, and we've got a text that describes this not just descriptively, but prescriptively, tells us to do this. So the book of Jude, uh, there's only one chapter, so Jude verse three, or beginning even in verse one, Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James, to those who are called, so this is to Christians generally, not to a church, but to Christians. Beloved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ, may mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you. Then verse three, beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you, to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. That faith that Jude talks about has specific content. Uh Peter says to always be ready to give an answer for the hope that's in you. That hope is Jesus. Uh Jesus in the Great Commission, go and make disciples. If we make disciples, we have to have content through which we are making those disciples. Um, Deuteronomy, instruct your children in these ways. Uh it's over and over and over. But what that ultimately leads to, though, is, as you said, Jeff, it leads to doxology, it leads to worship. So you look at Revelation 4 and 5, the vision of the throne room of heaven that John has, in chapter 5, um after um the seals have been broken from the scroll, verse 9 of chapter 5 in Revelation says, they, this is the 24 elders and the four living creatures that represent all the animals and God's chosen people, verse 9 says they sang a new song. So now they're singing, they're worshiping around the throne because of who Jesus is and what he's done. So their theology, their beliefs, have led to doxology, have led to worship. So, yeah, the the argument you gave earlier, the you can have your theology, but I've got my relationship, yeah, that's just not a healthy way to think. Um, nor is it a biblical way to think, because every time we see worship in Scripture, you see it at the beginning of the book of the church in Acts 2, where Peter preaches this incredible sermon and 3,000 people get saved that day. Um you see it with Paul at the Areopagus in Acts 17, he preaches the gospel, very theological message, and people follow Christ through that. Uh and then they well, they want to ask more questions. But these times of theological discourse lead to worship. They're leading people in that relationship. Because if you believe in the wrong God, the relationship's gonna be pretty bad. If you believe in the wrong Jesus, the relationship's gonna be off, the wrong spirit, the wrong scripture, the wrong salvation. I mean, all these things lead together. Uh, as you mentioned earlier, they're all tied together intimately.

Jeff 20:52

And if you don't understand, say, how law and gospel go together, how the Ten Commandments, the law, the moral law of God is summarized in the Ten Commandments, how that fits with justification by faith in Romans and Galatians. You're gonna have a miserable life trying to earn your salvation. And of course, there's, as you well know, better than uh anybody I know, that that has led to many, many Christian heresies and groups that try to are trying to work their way to heaven right now. But I love uh one of my favorite books of the Bible, and I'm sure it's yours too, is the book of Romans. And Paul spends the first few chapters unpacking man's sinfulness, the need for salvation, how he is uh how man is at odds with God, he is the enemy of God, sinners, and then unpacking justification by faith, how he can be made right and righteous before God, and how the Spirit applies that. And then he gets before a massive turn to how how so what? Why does this matter? In chapter 12 uh of uh of Romans, he says this. He just says, Oh, the depth and riches. The end of chapter 11, verse 33. Oh the depth and the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God, how uncertain. Are his judgments and how inscrutable are his ways. For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor? Or who has given him a gift that he might be repaid? For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever and ever. I think Paul's trying to contain that almost shouting, Glory, uh, this is doxology for all these chapters up to now, and it's like, how glorious is this, and he ends in doxology there before he transitions to you know uh I appeal to you therefore, brothers, and so why does this matter?

Travis 22:36

Yes, he goes from theology to doxology to practical living.

Jeff 22:39

Exactly. And that and that's the order. You have uh you have orthodoxy and orthopraxy. Uh you have the commands of scripture and the application. That's kind of how it goes in in all of scripture, and especially in Paul's writing. And uh that involves us necessarily in theology.

What’s Next And How To Respond

Jeff 22:56

So it's not a dirty word. So we look forward to this. I'm hoping this will be a helpful, um, helpful series uh for our our listeners out there, consistent with what we're trying to do here at the Basilic Scurry and instructing again and edifying, because to me, I I bought John MacArthur, I love to pull down, you know, one of the Puritans, maybe Thomas Watson, and read just a section of uh his uh exposition of the Ten Commandments and just shout almost because he he's so Christological in his understanding of the Ten Commandments. And again, that's reading theology. And so we'll we'll recommend some things to read along the way as well for you, and put those uh in links on our podcast.

Travis 23:36

Sounds good to me.

Jeff 23:37

Yeah, well, we're excited about this, and uh, we hope you are too. So the series, the occasional series we're calling it is everyone's a theologian. The topic is God's Word is inspired in authoritative, all-sufficient word, a theologically annotated love letter written to sinners like us. Sounds good. Thank you for listening to this podcast of the Baptist Courier and Courier Publishing. Be sure to follow us on all social media platforms, give us a five-star review, and send any question you want us to consider to Courier Conversations at gmail.com. If you prefer to watch our conversations, check us out on YouTube by clicking the link in the description.